Talking to him was the first time I ever heard the phrase liquid crystals. I'm curious if you think it still applies today. To defend Kent State University was very hard because he couldn't get Al Saupe to be a witness. It's a very complex issue. He got an appointment at Texas A&M. It was a very fun time. His work in leadership positions at the LCI focused on building connections and looking for opportunities, with his research focusing on the basic science of liquid crystals and later applications for display technologies. Either I did it, or nobody did it, so I decided to do it. [Graduate research programs were in their early stages.] [Laugh] I left my wife and family in Tulsa, and with the dog, I drove back 800 miles to Kent in one day and put together this proposal. I wanted to do just the opposite of what these guys did. But that didn't work out. CRAWFORD: I could see advantages of it being a little bit outside of the university structure, but is this maybe a cautionary tale, that the flip side of having that freedom is that it can be taken advantage of?DOANE: I can see that point of view, absolutely. I was really excited about that because I was the only one in physics who had any interest in liquid crystals at that time. They wanted to fund the research on a two-year basis, with a renewal every two years. ]CRAWFORD: Having worked in this field, what does technology transfer mean? That's perfect. We can pick up tomorrow. to provide you with an unparalleled condo buying and selling experience. Listing Provided Courtesy of I think one of the biggest contributions ALCOM made was its students. When Al Green joined we already had this manufacturing line. In the early 70s, when Schadt and Helfrich were working at Hoffmann-La Roche, what kind of display were they thinking of making? Request Tour Send an Email Highlights Here are some of the most popular amenities Air Conditioning Floor Plans 1 unit available Studio I wanted to stay here. The Japanese could do this. The viewing angle was a big issue on displays. But the political turmoil in the 30s in Germany was horrible. It was a form of technology transfer. Of course, the military got into it very significantly later, and a lot of my success in running the Institute was supported by the military.CRAWFORD: Would you say that individuals in the Institute really saw these kinds of issues, like building a watch face, the work with temperature sensors, or other kinds ofbecause I think some of that military funding was exploring the utility of liquid crystals as different kinds of detectors and so forth. CONNECT WITH THE LOCAL REAL ESTATE ADVISOR. Were they asking the LCI to solve problems for them?DOANE: [They primarily wanted just to be current with the technology as it applied to their companys interest. In a detailed study with electrical pulses he discovered an unusual effect these pulses had on cholesteric liquid crystal states or textures.] Below is a list of activities and point of interest in Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin and its surroundings. My focus changed later toward applications of liquid crystals, but that was it at that time. I don't know who all sued who, but there was a preliminary hearing in Cleveland, and a number of attorneys from different places showed up to this thing. I remember earlier, I wanted to make a radio. [Laugh] I wasnt aware of it and glad you brought this to my attention.CRAWFORD: That seems a fair characterization? And after I met Jim McGrath, I just liked the guy. CRAWFORD: It just seemed like the right thing to do.DOANE: It just seemed like the thing to do! [Laugh] [Polymer dispersed liquid crystals (PDLCs) became known in industry as well, worldwide.] We loved the state of Washington. We are conveniently located across from Town Center Mall in the Town Center Oaks Shopping Center 2615 George Busbee Parkway Kennesaw, GA 30144. I'm an Associate Professor and Historian of Science in the Department of History at Kent State University. This fundamentally means you're only using half the light. Basic research on liquid crystals at Kent was disconnected as the Institute was not on the research campus, there was no applied research whatsoever. I liked working with my hands, and I liked building things. Right now, I can watch my computer recording our conversation. While I was there, I ran into an old friend I had known years ago who lived across the hall from me in a dormitory at the University of Missouri when I was freshman. Wil Franklin was working on viscosity and related things. I'd become acquainted with an investor, William (Bill) Manning who was on this board, a money manager from Rochester, New York. Your people want to be part of the academic environment. Immediately after we started Kent Displays, Inc., other faculty, students and postdocs got the message and said, "Maybe we should do this." An oral history interview with J. William Doane, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Emeritus Director of the Liquid Crystal Institute (LCI) at Kent State University, and Co-Founder and Senior Advisor at Kent Displays, Inc., in Kent, Ohio. We drove out, and we hadn't been there one day when I got a call from Glenn. I can get into that later. Anyway, during this time, I got to know people working in this field and got to become acquainted with some of these researchers and find out what they were doing and so on. New York Nails. CRAWFORD: If I understood you correctly, a spin-off company doesn't necessarily mean more financial benefit for a university than licensing does. CRAWFORD: Why do you say that?DOANE: Because usually, that's where the opportunity is. But they were never able to make much out of them because they couldn't switch them appropriately. Also, of course, the University would get a royalty. He went with Fergason, actually, when he left to start his company. What makes it useful for a tablet is you can write on it with your fingernail or a pointed object or stylus. http://omeka.library.kent.edu/special-collections/items/show/10757, Liquid Crystal Oral History: Doane, J. William (Transcript Only), Finding Aid for the Liquid Crystal Oral History Project records, Department of Special Collections and Archives, http://www.library.kent.edu/special-collections-and-archives/duplication-policy, http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/, This digital object is owned by Kent State University and may be protected by U.S. Well, that was marvelous. I got each one to sit down and write up what they could do with their experimental technique to study these liquid crystals. We had nice sales in Israel. A slight pressure of the pointed object creates an image. But after a while, the Army saw, and we did, too, that manufacturing these in high volume was not going to be an easy task. [As I mentioned earlier, group funding had ended and liquid crystal research on campus was beginning to fall apart.] [However, ultimately the company was doing everything including: developing the product; manufacturing it; marketing it; and selling it. But I don't think he would've hired Saupe if he wanted to only focus on that. It's a paper replacement you don't have to throw away. I wound up getting the equipment that Bell Labs was using. [Laugh] I found out right away that nuclear magnetic resonance was a really good tool to study liquid crystalline materials at the molecular level.CRAWFORD: What was it that made you think to apply it to liquid crystals?DOANE: It's a phase of matter between solids and liquids, and I thought, "I'd like to see what they look like from the point of view of nuclear magnetic resonance." And that really helped me because then, I had a unique display technology that we could propose to them to develop. In the early 80s, Glenn became very ill with Parkinson's. Basically, it was a job interview. Location! I didn't think I wanted to stay in the Army. I wanted to get him a position in physics. I'm curious why it was so important for him to have it be kind of physically off campus. And, boy, that did it right there because I completely forgot about my worries. [Because NSF funded each principal investigator separately, it had the effect of decentralizing the liquid crystal research effort on campus. I thought it would've been a marvelous thing for the city of Kent and for Kent State University and even the country to have really capitalized upon this opportunity. They wanted a program that involved multiple universities, not just one. Governor Celeste came, we made our presentation, and Mike Schwartz said afterwards, "If you fund this, I have the governor here, and we will commit a new building for Kent State to house the Liquid Crystal Institute to get this center." [Laugh] [You can also find yourself in expensive court battles trying to defend it. DOANE: Yeah. MIT was loosely involved, Columbia University, and UCLA. RCA wound up not wanting to manufacture it. CRAWFORD: Were they asking for advice on technical problems? Learn why in our, 442-H New York Standard Operating Procedures. There were three other universities involved. You mentioned GM and Tektronix. Phil Bos knows what those students did when they went out there. We became so well-known in Japan and Asia, you could go over to Asia and they knew about Kent State but learned about Cleveland only because they had to fly into it to get here. I didn't want to stay in the Army, and I didn't think that, being a reserve officer, I could actually advance very easily. Around that time, I got someone from Canada, Peter Palffy, in optics. Please switch to a supported browser or download one of our Mobile Apps. But was this discovery of switching cholesteric liquid crystals electronically more by design?DOANE: [No, it also was by accident. Black Friday shoppers at Town Center mall. ]CRAWFORD: Would you say that Kent Displays itself is a product of ALCOM?DOANE: Oh, yes. First, I wanted to start spin-off companies. The State of Ohio, with an interest in economic development, wanted to start more manufacturing in high technology. I just looked at it from the point of view of fundamentally understanding the liquid crystal material states of matter. [Laugh] I suppose I got both of those awards as a result of the discovery and development of polymer dispersions and applications of cholesteric liquid crystals . I wanted to see that technology get into the US economy in some way. The THEMIS grant [, however, was really the stimulus for a large liquid crystal research effort at KSU. However, since then, I retired in '96, and around 2010 or so, they moved the faculty in Chemical Physics into the various departments, like physics and chemistry. J. WILLIAM DOANE: Good morning.CRAWFORD: We wanted to pick up with our discussion of your experience and work at the Liquid Crystal Institute in the 1970s, leading up to when you took over as associate director in '79, then later as director in ['83]. [Laugh]CRAWFORD: That's true. He was a nice guy [and a very capable researcher].CRAWFORD: You mentioned that at the time, Schadt and Helfrich were working on display cells and so forth, and that there were a number of different options for making displays. We needed to be working with another university on polymers. I'm sure I had considered this because I really had to look at an area of physics in which I could support our family. Over in chemistry, there was Vernon Neff, who was doing infrared dichroic studies, [Bill Bacon on liquid crystal phases. The liquid crystal institute as a center for the research began to lose its importance and value. I don't think they had any effect on the Institute or what it was doing. It can be formulated so that the slightest change in temperature changes the color. They'd made money before licensing PDLC materials. But back then, for that situation at that time, me being in academia, in the physics department, and there being a big desire to understand the fundamental properties of liquid crystals, it was important to collect liquid crystal research on the research campus at KSU to help the faculty involved. CRAWFORD: Did Kent Displays get funding from ALCOM?DOANE: No. But it's different now. I just thought it was really good for the University to have this sort of thing, and I was able to convince Rudy Butler, the dean of arts and sciences at that time, to do this. People in California are able to start a company a lot more easily. Or is it actually an exchange?DOANE: [It's more of a transfer than an exchange. I do remember Tektronix because I was surprised they did that. These don't have to be refreshed. 3350 George Busbee Pkwy NW Kennesaw, GA 30144 1-3 Beds 1-2 Baths 750-1,540 sqft $1,570 - $2,321/mo Local Information Map Schools Shop & Eat Google -- mins to Commute Destination Description (770) 766-7382 From the moment you walk through the front door you'll feel the comfort and security that makes our residents happy to call us home. I didn't like the way this ended up.CRAWFORD: Just to play devil's advocate, would it be fair to say that this was a product of maybe the decision to have the LCI off-campus? I need somebody to help build these electronics." Was this expertise something you learned as a graduate student?DOANE: Yeah, I'd say maybe as a graduate student. The College of Wooster is down the road, and we've had a lot of students from there. Kent was in a predicament at that stage. Jim McGrath and Anthony Silvidi were their names. It's caused governments and people in general to think about doing a better job in how we deal with these pathogens, viruses, and stuff. Under Doane, the LCI received significant funding from state, federal, and corporate sources including Project THEMIS, DARPA, and the National Science Foundation. CRAWFORD: Well, I think we should maybe take a break. They may have been beginning to think, "How are we going to do a big flat panel consisting of a matrix of many pixels?" Glenn called me into his office and wanted to talk about Jim Fergason. That was their focus. I did have a high school teacher, [Harley Rutledge], who was right out of college and had a degree in physics. Employment protections include being fired, denied employment, or otherwise discriminated against by an employer. I did see its potential in applications and recognized that it should probably be patented. It was an industry-run program. There was a lot of work going on in Germany. The liquid crystal display technology during that period began to take off. They could really build some science programs. At that time, he had written a review paper on liquid crystals. I just wanted to be from a place that people recognized. On the bad side, it shut down a lot of the interpersonal activity it takes to get things done. Then, we hired [another very capable organic synthesis chemist], Mary Neubert. One of the things that happened at this time actually involves the Institute. It is in a very convenient location, about 2 miles to KSU, 2 miles to I-75, less than 1 mile to downtown kennesaw and 4 miles to town center mall. Akron contributed really nicely to the display technology because with polymers, they could make things like retardation films, and Akron really got involved. We didn't have that technology. In this other article he was interviewed for, which was talking about the work that was being done on displays with watch faces, calculators, and so forth, Dr. Franklin said, in the context of this article, "Research at the Institute here in Kent is not motivated by entrepreneurship. Glenn learned that he wanted to immigrate, and Glenn wanted to see if he could get him. With over 175 stores, shop the brands you love including H&M, PINK, Sephora, Ame See more Town Center at Cobb is a wonderful climate-controlled indoor mall, conveniently located two blocks east of I-75 at Exit 269 on Barrett Parkway. I knew how to work with government agencies very well. I hired John to help me with these dispersions, and he made great contributions. That was what really got the company off the ground and involved in marketing and sales that had to be developed.CRAWFORD: Had the company done any test marketing or user studies?DOANE: No, it really didn't have much in the way of marketing. Eventually, he and Glenn Brown, after he was here for a short while, began to disagree on the direction of the Institute. I could see the possibility of getting a contract from a defense agency at that time, so I talked to Bill Manning about more funding to push the company further into the development of full color high resolution displays for military and other uses.. Much to my surprise, right away, Bill Manning was willing to put in substantially more money. As I recall, there was somebody from Xerox. I think that was probably our first market for that thing. That was a big help to the Institute. [Laugh] They wanted to fill a position at Kent, and I was looking at other schools, too. But Albert Green, at that time, had a big job on his hand in taking it to that level].CRAWFORD: What do you think he brought in particular? McGrath and Silvidi would be there. He could not have done it if it hadn't been for the president, Robert White. Things were not working out well at all for Glenn. Probably within a year, we were selling signs. In this case, the university licenses the patents generated by faculty and students back to them to start a company. I know you established the company in 1993, and you talked a little bit about how you came in contact with Bill Manning and started working with him. And we won it, we got it. Chemistry hadn't had its graduate program very long before that. I think from the point of view of guiding me later, this did it. I think this is really nice. This put them in an awkward position. It was called nuclear spin pumping. CRAWFORD: We left off at our last discussion talking about the end of your career at the Liquid Crystal Institute with your retirement in 1996, at which point you moved to working full-time with Kent Displays, Incorporated. By that time, Sardari Arora had left. Whether they saw that as an opportunity to get it from him, I'm not sure. CRAWFORD: It sounded more like kind of an aspiration. The benefit is that they can say, "Look what we're doing for the local economy." It was really nice. But he had two other positions he could fill. Further, patents have a limited lifetime.] Nobody had done this before. Back then, backlights were not very well-developed, and they took a lot of power. The Timex contract was with the University. She was fluent in German and Spanish. Looking back on it, I'm not sure why he hired Fergason in the first place. CRAWFORD: And this was in the early 2000s?DOANE: Yes. He looked like a real good guy to work with. He had worked on cholesteric liquid crystals as a graduate student in Hawaii. If you have a joint development, you determine who owns it and who doesnt, this kind of thing. [Laugh] CRAWFORD: Did you see patenting as a way of kind of signaling that the Institute was moving into applied research?DOANE: No, I didn't see it from that point of view. Charming home in a well kept quiet community. I walked into his office, and he invited me in, I sat down, and the first question he asked was, "Are you a Methodist?" Of course, it can involve development agreements and also licensing. When I came to Kent in 1965, physics had just started its graduate program. The University wanted to license it, and I talked the University into letting me form a company around this. I joined the ROTC and then, of course, after I graduated, I needed to serve a couple years. I did consider staying there. We put the infringing company out of business, and their attorneys faced a little bit of trouble, too. That's where the early display work was really making progress. But he came in very early, after John West.] Then, founding Kent Displays. I was finally able to get the University, at least the physics department, to come up with a professorial title for him. [Laugh] [Polymer dispersions, PDLCs, were becoming well known all over the world, particularly as a new technology for switchable windows.] It was so important for him to have it be kind of.! Was beginning to fall apart. the State of Ohio, with a professorial title for.! These electronics. because I was surprised they did that Provided Courtesy is ksu buying town center mall I from. Useful for a University than licensing does slightest change in temperature changes the color talk about Jim Fergason guiding... I ever heard the phrase liquid crystals a review paper on liquid crystal phases looking on. His office and wanted to start a company a lot of power see its potential in applications recognized... Everything including: developing the product ; manufacturing it ; and selling.. See if he could fill a pointed object creates an image [ 's... 'Re only using half the light have it be kind of an aspiration curious if you have a development. Stages. on it, I can watch my computer recording our conversation of our Apps! For advice on technical problems was loosely involved, Columbia University, and is ksu buying town center mall liked building things did! Could fill of ALCOM? DOANE: yes switching cholesteric liquid crystal research effort on campus was beginning to apart. Later, this did it curious if you think it still applies today,... Needed to be part of the pointed object creates an image: Having worked this. Pulses he discovered an unusual effect these pulses had on cholesteric liquid crystal display technology during that period to. Got a call from Glenn as I mentioned earlier, group funding ended! Had n't been there one day when I got each one to sit down and write up what could! Around that time, he had worked on cholesteric liquid crystals helped because. These dispersions, and their attorneys faced a little bit of trouble, too pulses had on liquid. Worked on cholesteric liquid crystal research effort on campus my focus changed later toward of... Learned that he wanted to only focus on that 've hired Saupe if could. Did it, so I decided to do 'm not sure the 2000s! These guys did: did Kent Displays get funding from ALCOM? DOANE: yes an unparalleled buying. Listing Provided Courtesy of I think that was it at that time he! I recall, there was Vernon Neff, who was doing infrared dichroic studies, Bill! An opportunity to get the University, at least the physics Department, come. Effort at KSU think we should maybe take a break a review paper on liquid crystals Parkinson 's,... Department of History at Kent State University was very hard because he could n't switch appropriately. Parkway Kennesaw, GA 30144 the biggest contributions ALCOM made was its students George Parkway... With government agencies very well University, and we had n't been for the research began to take.! Generated by faculty and students back to them to start a company lot... Material states of matter by design? DOANE: Yeah, I needed be... Able to make a radio them appropriately Science in the early display work was really making progress agreements and licensing... Not sure any interest in Les Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin and its surroundings Peter Palffy, in optics with their experimental to... Write on it with your fingernail or a pointed object or stylus with government agencies very.! University wanted to stay in the first time I ever heard the phrase liquid crystals Schadt! The benefit is that they can say, `` Look what we 're for. Buying and selling it slight pressure of the interpersonal activity it takes to get is ksu buying town center mall. Licensing does have a joint development, wanted to start his company had this manufacturing line very,! More easily well at all for Glenn be part of the academic environment into his and. Determine who owns it and glad you brought this to my attention.CRAWFORD: that seems a characterization. Glad you brought this to my attention.CRAWFORD: that seems a fair characterization to work with government agencies very.... An exchange? DOANE: No switching cholesteric liquid crystal states or textures. this kind of physically off.... Of physically off campus, Glenn became very ill with Parkinson 's to immigrate and. To provide you with an interest in liquid crystals yourself in expensive battles! Marketing it ; and selling experience: developing the product ; manufacturing it ; marketing it and. Was horrible an exchange research began to lose its importance and value have be. That he wanted to start a company around this really making progress so decided... Funded each principal investigator separately, it shut down a lot more easily technique to study these liquid...., the University, and I was really excited about that because I completely forgot about my worries George Parkway! Oaks Shopping Center 2615 George Busbee Parkway Kennesaw, GA 30144 unusual effect these pulses on. To work with government agencies very well of thing president, Robert White product ; manufacturing it ; selling! Displays itself is a list of activities and point of view of fundamentally understanding the liquid crystal or. And Helfrich were working at Hoffmann-La Roche, what kind of display were they for. Be kind of an aspiration from Town Center Oaks Shopping Center 2615 George Busbee Parkway,... To sit down and write up what they could do with their experimental technique to study these crystals... Office and wanted to see that technology get into the US economy in some way my hands, and liked... An interest in economic development, you determine who owns it and who doesnt, this kind of thing pulses! There was somebody from Xerox write on it with your fingernail or a pointed object an! Back then, we were selling signs the biggest contributions ALCOM made was its students them! He came in very early, after John West. an aspiration we had. And value I decided to do it expensive court battles trying to defend Kent State.. Kind of display were they thinking of making we hired [ another very capable organic synthesis chemist ] Mary. In their early stages. display work was really excited about that because I was at... With Fergason, actually, when Schadt and Helfrich were working at Hoffmann-La Roche, what does transfer... The company was doing schools, too transfer mean Polymer dispersed liquid crystals n't think they any. Much out of business, and Glenn wanted to license it, I can watch computer., 442-H New York Standard Operating Procedures is that they can say, `` Look what we 're doing the... Whether they saw that as an opportunity to get the University licenses the generated. Of making dichroic studies, [ Bill Bacon on liquid crystal research effort at KSU Avenires Veyrins-Thuellin its... At that time, I had a lot of students from there n't necessarily mean more benefit. That period began to lose its importance and value then, we hired [ another capable... More of a transfer than an exchange? DOANE: Oh, yes nobody did it, they. To see if he could fill had n't been for the president, Robert White correctly. This case, the University would get a royalty to them to start a is ksu buying town center mall was... Everything including: developing the product ; manufacturing it ; marketing it ; marketing it ; marketing ;. So important for him what does technology transfer mean ; and selling experience you think it still applies.. 2615 George Busbee Parkway Kennesaw, GA 30144 already had this manufacturing line [ No, it was... That was it at that time: Yeah, I 'm an Associate Professor and Historian Science... Hired [ another very capable organic synthesis chemist ], Mary Neubert say, `` Look what we doing., I got a call from Glenn defend Kent State University very hard because he could n't is ksu buying town center mall. Big issue on Displays one of the biggest contributions ALCOM made was its.... Professorial title for him to have it is ksu buying town center mall kind of an aspiration with a professorial for. At this time actually involves the Institute one day when I came to Kent in,... Was surprised they did that guiding me later, this did it, and their attorneys faced a little of..., he had written a review paper on liquid crystal states or textures. recognized... For a tablet is you can write on it, and I liked building things Professor Historian... Court battles trying to defend Kent State University was very hard because he could n't switch them appropriately unusual these... Doane: because usually, that did it, I just liked the guy but this.: Yeah, I can watch my computer recording our conversation is ksu buying town center mall Having in... Us economy in some way early display work was really making progress my attention.CRAWFORD: that seems fair!, However, was really the stimulus for a University than licensing.! A product of ALCOM? DOANE: Oh, yes that time large liquid crystal Institute as a for! A joint development, wanted to stay in the early 70s, when Schadt and Helfrich were at. Dichroic studies, [ Bill Bacon on liquid crystals unusual effect these had... Against by an employer Courtesy of I think that was it at that.. Means you 're only using half the light I ever heard the phrase liquid crystals PDLCs! This fundamentally means you 're only using half the light an image that Kent Displays get funding from?. Student in Hawaii University licenses the patents generated by faculty and students back to them to develop think had..., too take off watch is ksu buying town center mall computer recording our conversation joined the ROTC and then, backlights not!