I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. What do you think that. There have been several alleged sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Part II. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. That's too big for Bobcat. The scientific name for the catamount is Puma concolor. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. State officials confirmed the presence of a mountain lion near the Quabbin Reservoir in the late 1990s. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. So Michael follows with the question. Mike thanks for your call. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. Part II. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, In latest school funding trial, state attorneys argue NH districts' budgets are bloated, Lawmakers, advocates, families in NH react to Biden Admin's proposed Title IX change, Give Back NH: The New England Grassroots Environment Fund, NHs housing crisis is pushing more older adults to seek help, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". You need you need either a really good photograph or you need you know fresh scat that can be sent to a lab out West that can they can be identified there. They don't know the direction they're going. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. May 23 . Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. I found a second scat scent both to him. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. Caller: Oh yeah. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. So let's let's go to the phones. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Thank you. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. We want answers. Early in the morning. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. John thanks. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. Do they travel. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Caller: I do. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. They were able to do all that by genetics. So what counts as verifiable evidence? If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. Well they are the same. Caller: Hi. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. He was just walking along the river then went up into the woods . Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Thank you very much for being here. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Sam. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. The last documented individuals in the entire Northeast were killed in New Brunswick , Canada, in 1932, and Maine in 1938. Well let me ask maybe Pat and Rick about this. So you want identifiable backgrounds. May 18, 2012 Mountain Lion Killed In Conn. Based on this blurry photo and pawprints, DEEP confirmed it was likely a mountain lion. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. I think that you probably are. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. So one thing I'll add. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Wed love to be part of the first verified sighting. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. Yes. Thank you. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. Really appreciate it. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. So in fact, maybe a decade ago now there was a mountain lion killed in Connecticut and through DNA analysis of that mountain lion and scat that had been left in various places. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Tell us your story. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. Patrick Tate: Yes. Mountain lion or cat running across. Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. He said matter of fact I do. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. You're on the air. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. Your support makes this news available to everyone. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Novartis sold $1.1 billion worth of Gilenya in the U.S. last year, a 19% drop from 2021 that was caused in part by generic competition, according to . So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. These were normal everyday folks. John is calling from Bennington. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. It was some sort of a Lion Mountain Lion animal. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. I just want to tell you a story that I read. The sub-population in Florida is known as the Florida panther . Right. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. So now what's going on. That's pretty elaborate. How far were you from this cat. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. They sent it already. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. They kill big animals. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Patrick Tate: Okay. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. Sam Evans Brown. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Infinite Scroll Enabled. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. We'll be right back. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. So. So what a neat experience. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. He told me that on one of his many scouting trips for Black Bear he found a deer carcass up in a tree. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. John. For evidence of a free-roaming, wild and native mountain lion, we must look back to 1874. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. We had six copies printed out each. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. According to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner heard growling coming from underneath his porch while working outside. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The states never denied mountain lions are here, and theyve never admitted mountain lions are here. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. The next day I crossed the river and took pictures of a paw print he left behind . 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